On Nov. 6th you will be asked to cast your ballot on two proposed Constitutional Amendment questions. Amendment 1 reads:
"Shall the Constitution of Georgia be amended to allow state or local approval of public charter schools upon the request of local communities"
I started this blog on August 14th - the same day that the highest-ranking elected official in education in Georgia, Dr. John Barge, State School Superintendent, issued an 8-page statement of the facts with 16 attachments.
This document, which was ordered to be removed from the State DOE website, lays out all the facts in the case. Dr. Barge concludes with," I simply cannot support the charter school amendment."
Rather than rehash all my objections to this amendment, it is more appropriate to highlight Dr. Barge's reasons for asking Georgia voters to vote "NO" on Amendment 1. The 8-page document is attached as a pdf - please read it before voting.
To highlight several statements;
"I support the creation of high quality charter schools for Georgia's students...However, I cannot support the creation of a new, costly, and unnecessary state bureaucracy."
"As a conservative, I believe our state needs to be fiscally responsible, support local community control, and limit government...This amendment runs counter to all three of these critical conservative principles."
"As a conservative leader and conservative supporter of public education in Georgia I value innovation with accountability. I do not value siphoning money from our schools to support state charter schools or to create a new and unnecessary state agency."
Dr. Barge was essentially told to "shut up" by the "powers that be" who are pushing this amendment. One would think that Governor Deal and certain legislators would agree with Dr. Barge's statement, "Public education is worth protecting and supporting. My commitment has been, and continues to be, to improve public education in Georgia for all students."
It is very apparent that they don't agree with Dr. Barge. The legislation and budget cuts that we have seen in the past 8 years have not been supportive of ALL Georgia's students. Could it possibly be because there's more money in supporting the privatization of public education? Bingo.
Dr. Barge is my hero - he has a conscience. He gave voters the facts knowing that it would put him in harm's way. I am grateful and it gives me hope to see that there are elected officials that we can still count on to tell the truth.
The # 1 Reason to vote "NO" on Amendment 1 - the highest-ranking education professional in the state of Georgia cannot support this amendment.
Dean Sheridan
1:28 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
@Ms. Hooper: A true conservative leader you claim would have to know the number one reason to support it trumps your reason to oppose it. Secondly, Dr. Barge despite his commitment to those same powers to be supporting it was rolled under the school bus by the SD. Those that agree and use your talking points approach have no credibility because of SD waste, fraud and cronies contracts. You need to clean your own porch before they tell others to clean their’s. The #1 Reason to vote "YES" on Amendment 1 - A Monopoly is not in the best interest of the children and having the School District control something they oppose is just that. Competition breeds success, Amendment 1 does that unlike the Status quo you cherish.
Elizabeth Hooper
4:10 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
Dean - you must be on Alice Walton's payroll as well! Talk about spin - Walmart is not a monopoly but my locally elected school board is. Go ahead give the billionaires access to the last pot of money they don't yet control. These folks have raised propaganda to an art form - have to give you all credit for that.
J Bart
5:07 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
I for one will vote NO to Amendment One. (1.) There is no cap on the number of charter schools that can be approved each year by this unelected board of political cronies, a duplication of the existing charter school approval process. We already have a constitutional process in place to approve charter schools. (2.) Our Georgia Constitution should never be amended unless absolutedly necessary which is not true in this case. (3.) The parents and children who might possibly need another school choice often live in low-income, impoverished communities. That population would need transportation to the charter school. Charter schools do not currenlty provide transportation. Charter schools are more likely to be placed in higher income communities. (4) This amendment and its associated H.B. 797 do not require that teachers be certified nor that they be U.S. citizens. (5.) This legislation also requires that the charter schools have the same federal testing manadates as traditional schools which removes the very advantage previous charter schools offered. In conclusion, I am voting NO to the blank check this unelected commission will most surely request. Please work with our current legislators to removed federal mandates and interference in our schools. That will get us on the right road to recovery.
Monty Brewster
9:14 am on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Dean, there is no such thing as status quo in education. Politicians, like yourself, who have no idea what is best in education, are continuously changing policies in education. Most of the time to the detriment of education.
Athens Mama
12:57 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
@ Monty - I'm in Education and I am here to say that YES, there is a status quo in Education. Not every district, or every school, or every teacher believes in delivering high quality customer service. Particularly in a district or school where there is a high incidence of behavior issues. In these cases, people often feel that they are martyrs and that poor professional behavior is justifiable after years of service. Instead of being removed or removing themselves for burnout, they stay and sour the experiences of groups of children. If administration is more concerned with making AYP than with making sure that there are high levels of engagement and positivity in a classroom, then it doesn't matter how many parents complain about the treatment of the children. VOTE YES FOR AMENDMENT ONE. PARENTS IN GEORGIA NEED MORE CHOICES WHEN THEY ONLY HAVE ONE NEIGHBORHOOD SCHOOL CHOICE.
Monty Brewster
1:34 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Then why not get rid of AYP? It's a joke in the first place. So is "customer service". You should be educating the students, not giving them grades to appease them. The main concern I hear from the teachers I talk to is that parents are more concerned with grades and not that their children are actually learning. The good teachers are berated when their students are not receiving good grades because the teacher has high expectations. Is it the teachers fault when students are not studying at home, stay up until 3AM playing games or on the internet, or just poor parenting? Why hasn't there been a shift to placing more responsibility on the students and parents so that there is an equal share in responsibility between the three?
There's hardly room for change when Admin are overburdened with having to keep up with classroom observations, and teachers are inundated with submitting paperwork which takes away even more time from them focusing on their students needs. NCLB, RTTT, and standardized testing is worthless. These policies should be set at the local level. I'm keeping it local with my vote. I'll be voting NO.
Athens Mama
9:58 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
@Monty: Really, customer service is a joke? I'm not talking about giving good grades. I'm talking about treating students with humanity and love. Children learn future behaviors from the role models they have during their childhoods. You need to take a class in child development.
Erik Fernald
10:04 pm on Monday, November 5, 2012
This lady is so clearly into the cool aid, she is not coming out dean. Other than the need to oppose her insane viewpoints, arguing back and forth with her is a waste of time. i do not understand how people think this way, but unfortunately they do.
Monty Brewster
9:27 am on Tuesday, November 6, 2012
I love when people use the "Kool-Aid" line... especially when they are permanently attached to the teat of our politicians and can't see past the "udder" corruption.
Steely Dan
2:37 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
How predictable. Mrs Hooper's hero is a Superintendent. I've said all along that the NO crowd worships their superintendents - I present to you Exhibit A.
Mrs Hooper is about as conservative as Ted Kennedy. Vote YES to 1162 and NO to the union, entitlement, hands-out, superintendent-worshiping mentality of those who are against it.
Monty Brewster
10:00 am on Saturday, November 3, 2012
This amendment is the ultimate entitlement.
Jane
4:10 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
Maybe if Fulton, Gwinnett, and DeKalb hadn't had a field day closing charter schools in the past 18 months I would consider voting no. However, so far school districts have proven they don't care about the kids by leaving a lot of them without schools because they don't want to lose the money. Georgia is in the bottom TEN in education. The less power the public schools have at this point the better. So...YES it is!
Elizabeth Hooper
4:55 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
Jane, Massachusetts is number one in education on the NAEP tests. Why aren't we modeling our policies after them? Let's jump at anything shall we - this legislation is weak. It's a joke compared to any other state's. A parent group has filed a lawsuit against the state of Florida for failure to live up to their constitutional mandate to provide an adequate education for all children. Charter school scandals abound. Florida is Georgia's model - no difference in NAEP test scores. Can't wait.
Elizabeth Hooper
4:18 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
Steely, I know it will be a sad day when you no longer have me to kick around. Did you ever think that perhaps your lack of respect for everyone who doesn't agree with whatever you call your point of view is perhaps the Number 2 reason people will be voting NO on Amendment 1? The thought of giving control of public money to "your ilk" as you are so fond of saying is alarming. Go ahead - you can have the last word, and the one after that, and the one after that.......
Steely Dan
10:42 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
Mrs Hooper,I doubt I've enough influence to sway anyone's opinion but thanks for the vote of confidence.
When you actually take a conservative stance on something, rather than backing the status quo that's failing so many GA schoolkids, you might get some respect. Until then, keep shilling for the same system that produced APS and the other accreditation-losing districts you are so blindly in support of and never even acknowledge the existence of. I know - that's not how it is in N. Fulton so what's the problem, right?
I hope this is your last word on the subject, seeing what a poor job you've done with the first few thousand you've typed.
Monty Brewster
10:06 am on Saturday, November 3, 2012
TEA Party opposes this amendment. More spending? More government? Change the Constitution? This amendment will lead to more taxes to support two school systems... "Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck"? Looks like you're the Liberal, Dan.
Steely Dan
12:37 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
Monty, only a single branch of the TEA Party led by Debbie Dooley supports NO. The rest of the TEA party is voting YES, as they're aware of the disaster being foisted upon us by the various admins in the public schools.
It's very similar to the Steroid Scandal in Major League Baseball: As we found out (and already knew), Mark McGwire wasn't the only one using steroids - just the most prominent.
Similarly, the test-score-altering cheating is certainly not limited to APS - they're just the district stupid enough to get caught. Before they got caught, all our funding was going to subsidize these cheaters. And remember: Had the Atlanta newspaper not investigated this and found the ridiculous test-score discrepancies,it would most-likely still be ongoing. (APS wasn't very good at cheating, it seems) The schools aren't reporting themselves.
APS is Mark McGwire-the big-name that got caught. So...which other districts are Roger Clemens? Barry Bonds?Andy Pettitte? Which other districts haven't been caught yet?
Voters need to familiarize themselves with APS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Public_Schools_cheating_scandal
Vote YES to give parents a chance to avoid these cheaters. Charter schools cannot possibly do a worse job providing an education than the status quo is doing now.
Monty Brewster
2:49 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
So lets open more schools with less oversight? I don't see your reasoning? Should we start a new baseball league?
Hal Schneider
3:32 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
The fallacy in your thinking Monty, is that ONLY government can provide "oversight" for our schools. Parents are far better stewards of their children's education than ANY government employee!
And the Forsyth County Tea Party does NOT oppose this amendment!
Monty Brewster
4:21 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
Are there any TEA Party branches that support it?
Are all the students in the district schools orphaned? I'm missing your point Hal.
Monty Brewster
4:35 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
Hal, this amendment will create more government... That's about all it does.
Hal Schneider
4:54 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
Monty,
Have you actually read the amendment? It creates NOTHING! It reinstates authority to the State Charter Commission, which ALREADY exists, to hear appeals from parents and charter companies in the event that their application is rejected by the local BoE. That is ALL it does! The State Charter Commission has been in existence since 2008 and was functioning just fine until last year's stupid court ruling!
Monty Brewster
12:34 am on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Hal, can you name the members on the "already existing" commission?
Andrew Blawat
1:42 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Voting YES will decrease government because if the public schools can not keep up with charter schools than they will get no business. No parent in their right mind will send their child to a public school that does more poorly than a private charter school.
We pay less and the kids get a better education.
Monty Brewster
2:58 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Andrew, only 17% of charters have shown to be better than their public counterpart. They certainly are not cheaper, unless you are only looking at the money that actually makes its way to the classrooms.
Common Sense
3:10 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Andrew, private charter school!? They are PUBLIC schools. And, did you know that only 38 of 150 met their goals last year in Georgia? So what were you saying about 'under-performing public schools' again?
Do your homework - Charter Schools perform the same or WORSE than traditional public schools. Here's a great start: http://credo.stanford.edu/reports/National_Release.pdf. And they almost ALWAYS have a more 'desirable' population to educate. Take a look at the fiasco in FL with Charters and SPED students: http://stateimpact.npr.org/florida/tag/disabled-in-florida-charters/. Lastly, visit the DOE website and compare ethnicity, free/reduced lunch and ELL students between CCSD schools and CCA. The numbers are staggering. And CCA performed NO BETTER than CCSD (comparing CRCT scores), though I would think the school would blow the county out of the water with a whopping ONE ELL (English-language Learner) student last year.
Steely Dan
6:59 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Monty, you're wrong. Almost all charter schools outperform almost all traditional public schools - it's not even close. Here in GA, our public schools can't even get 7 of 10 kids to graduate on time. Yet you want to bend over backwards to continue this dismal D- grade in HS education. Meanwhile, charter HS graduate over 90% of kids. Yet you want to end these alternatives to your D- approach.
Vote YES to Amendment 1 and 'no' to the D- mentality.
Monty Brewster
9:01 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Dan, you are wrong. The most inclusive, unbiased Stanford CREDO study shows that public schools are much more likely to outperform charter schools. Where's your data proving otherwise?
Most students that do not graduate are due to low socioeconomic status, not because of the schools that they attend. Charters have a higher ratio of students that come from affluent families, and have parents with the freedom to volunteer and drive them to and from school. Many public schools students do not have these liberties as they work multiple jobs. Many students will drop out to support their families due to illnesses as well. When a receiving school doesn't report the transfer, the student will also count as a drop out. And I'm sure that charters will kick out any students that are not performing, or at least make their experience one that will cause them to move back to public schools so they are not affected by their failure.
No More Bullies
10:29 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Dan, I can't find those 90% grad rates for charter schools in Georgia.... Especially the state charters. please don't point to Walton high school as your example, it was high performing 30 years ago, decades before it converted.
Monty Brewster
11:35 pm on Monday, November 5, 2012
Hal, you still looking for those members of the commission that doesn't exist?
Steely Dan
10:56 pm on Tuesday, November 6, 2012
Looks like the YES voters are having the last word, Mrs. Hooper.
did you ever consider that a majority of Georgians might actually with me?
I guess you're finding that out now.
Thanks for driving many of the undecideds to the 21st century side of the argument with these blogs of yours. The no-ideas negativity of the NO crowd did more damage than anything I ever typed.
Steely Dan
10:57 pm on Tuesday, November 6, 2012
You should be looking for NO votes, Monty. You're gonna need about 600,000 more of 'em at this point.
What a loud statement the YES crowd has made. Congratulations, children of Georgia - the real winners of this election.
Kelly Anfuso
5:19 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
Why would a parent not want choice?
Ms. Hooper it has become clear you are not in this for the kids, but to win a point you lost long ago. The bitterness and hatred you spew is offensive. Your facts are non existant. Why must I be forced to send my child to a school that ranks in the bottom of my county. Fulton County, your county, certianly needs options as the cheating continues, and now it is not just APS any more. This is for all the students in the state of GA. Yes we have some great schools, and even good schools sometimes will miss the mark with a child. Options need to be made available. Choice is good. If you are a parent, I hope that your child is excelling in their local school, but if you ever need the option to have a choice, you need to vote yes to amendment 1. Your zip code an be redistricted and currently that is what determines where your child attends school. VOTE YES AMENDMENT 1
Athens Mama
5:24 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
Vote YES on the charter amendment. The problems in many local school districts cannot be solved by BOEs. BOEs are in it to serve everyone as best they can, given the circumstances, regulations, and funds. If that means most students get a mediocre education where one in three don't graduate, then that is what it is. It is sad that districts who are doing the best job to serve their parents and students and deliver quality customer service may suffer. However, theoretically, the commission would not have an outpouring of community support for a new charter school where the local public schools are already keeping the community well served.
LD
7:34 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
By now, I shouldn't be, but I continue to be amazed that the people voting "yes" for this amendment do not understand that GA already has both a local and state method for approving charter schools. I am also continually amazed that, despite the evidence, that people believe charter schools are academically better than traditional schools. This amendment isn't about charter schools - it is about governance and how much power we want to give the General Assembly. Personally, I do no believe, nor want, the General Assembly to expand the scope of its power. If I do not like the decisions my school board makes, it is my job to get them out. Nobody ever said that would be easy - but it is preferable to being lazy and allowing financial interests to trump all else. Vote NO! to Amendment 1!
Bob Gentry
10:07 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
I, a conservative also, think that the charter school amendment will be good for Georgia. We are currently 48th in the nation in education. How much worse can we get, Parent choice should be supported. This amendment will allow local school board to be bypassed, a good thing, because obviously no one is going to support something when money will be diverted from your budget, The money should follow the child. Having more flexibility to better meet the needs of students is also a plus. The idea that it will reinstate segregation is preposterous.More choice and more competition creates higher standards and better quality. If a school performs well, more will go to it, so it will receive more funding, and the opposite for bad schools. Wouldn't it be great if the failing public schools of Atlanta could be replaced by well-performing charter schools. Our drop-out rate is very high. No amount of state and national standards will fix that. More choice and competition is needed,
Monty Brewster
10:15 am on Saturday, November 3, 2012
Bob, the ranking is not accurate as it compares 80% of our student population to less than 20% of more than half of the other states. If you compare our top 20% to have a real comparison, we would be in the top 15, possibly top 10.
We need to give students more choice and less testing. Our legislators (the same ones pushing for amendment 1 and HOST tax) have stripped those choices from our children and inundated them with testing. Do you really think they are now offering you real choice? Seems to me there is something bigger on the agenda and this is just the first step... a reason to divert more funding from the majority of our children and take away more of their choices.
Steely Dan
12:12 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
So Monty, why aren't you NO folks fighting for that? Where's the NO crowd protests and lobbying for less-testing and more choice? Your agenda is clear - you've no real interest in educational improvement - only increases in taxation to get more funding, even though all studies and real-world data show that there's no correlation with increased spending and educational performance.
Meanwhile, the system you heap praise on is resulting in 50% of GA tech. college students needing remedial education due to your system not preparing them. It's resulting in a 66% HS graduation rate (compared to 90% for charter HSs).
The main reason Amendment 1 is needed is to correct the decades of damage you NO people have inflicted on it through your insistence on more funding and less accountability. You liberals have only one solution to all of life's problems: More funding. It doesn't work, as Cherokee County's recent high SAT scores (after several years of spending CUTS) proved. Those, after years of spending increases resulted in SAT-score stagnation.
Monty Brewster
4:39 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
Then put your (lack of) money where your mouth is...and accept less funding for chartyrs. Repeal 797.
Steely Dan
7:33 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
Monty, when I see you, Frank, and Mrs. Hooper at the Capital, protesting for real improvements in education rather than just keyboard-cowboying' for more funding, I'll join you - how's that?
Why don't you folks ever do anything to try and improve education?
Monty Brewster
12:54 am on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Not more funding, adequate funding. Maybe we can all carpool down in January. We can use your parking space Chip has reserved for you.
Steely Dan
10:42 am on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Monty, the funding is already 'adequate' enough to give every CCSD employee an across-the-board, no-questions-asked 3$ raise in January. Funding is already adequate enough for record high SAT test scores in CCSD.
See you in January - but you and your 3% raise can pick up the gas tab. Those of us living in Planet Reality aren't getting 3% raises.
Monty Brewster
12:05 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
I won't be getting any raise in January. So I'm not sure who you think you're talking to. However, where else can employees be the best around and not be expected to get a raise. Teachers should get a lot more than that. Especially the under valued, over worked, and under paid chartyr school teachers.
Athens Mama
12:59 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
You hit the nail on the head - from someone with a Master's degree in Education.
Steely Dan
7:03 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Monty, our teachers are already very well-paid, esp. since most of them only work 8 months/year. GA's teacher pay rate is far, far higher than the educational metrics they're in charge of teaching. Once again, as CCSD's SAT scores show, more money never equates to an increase in performance, unless you're APS and just alter the test scores. I know you libs loving squandering and spending as much tax $$$ as you can, but there's not a single instance of that failed philosophy actually working.
And fund the Teachers & Classrooms first, and they'd get an immediate 8-furlough-days raise. Instead, your hero supers get to siphon off the top.
Monty Brewster
9:07 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
You contradict yourself in less than a paragraph... again, proving my point.
love living in Forsyth
10:15 pm on Monday, November 5, 2012
Bob,
"If a school performs well, more will go to it, so it will receive more funding, and the opposite for bad schools. Wouldn't it be great if the failing public schools of Atlanta could be replaced by well-performing charter schools. Our drop-out rate is very high. No amount of state and national standards will fix that"
But if the failing schools are replaced, where will the troubled kids go?
Frank Jones
11:43 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
People, people, people...You're about to vote on a constitutional amendment and are so unaware of the facts. The facts are that:
1. The state BOE already has the ability to approve charter applications. Amendment 1 is only needed to create a separate non-accountable board to approve charters as a 3rd line of defense and to approve charters that haven't even been submitted to a local district.
2. Studies have shown that charters do not perform better than traditional schools.
3. Charters are as universally open to all students as traditional schools. They are a pseudo-private institutions that don't provide free transportation, public elections of officials, open financials, equal access to admissions, and demand either financial contributions or "volunteer" hours to offset their expenses and to generate profits for the management companies.
4. Our schools aren't 48th in the nation. The SAT company discounts that "ranking" and use of their numbers as that number is meaningless. Simply math dictates that when a higher % of students take the SAT the average SAT score will drop. GA has among the highest SAT participation rate in the country.
5. The charter amendment isn't truly being pushed for by GA voters. It is being pushed for by out-of-state, for-profit management groups who want to cash in.
If you want truly excellent schools in GA, vote NO and demand the General Assembly to fund schools and get involved locally.
Steely Dan
12:20 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
1. Amendment 1's passage would cement your point. So what's the fear of making it part of the constitution, so that short-sighed local boards couldn't dictate choice to parents, as they currently do?
2. Studies show that charters always outperform traditional public schools. GA traditional public HS grad rate: 66%. Charter HS grad rate: 90%. Though you fear it, competition and accountability WORK.
4. Public schools don't provide public elections of officials outside of board members. Superintendents, admins, principals - all are appointed. Superintendents are contractors - it's not surprising that most act in ways that are harmful to education. See APS, Bibb, Dekalb, Clayton, and other districts on the verge of losing accreditation. Superintendents DO NOT CARE about public education - only funding.
4. Our schools ARE 48th in the nation. Obfuscate stats all you want, but our test scores lag even those states that test similar %s of students.
5. Non-charter GA High schools are graduating 66% of students on time Not only is this embarrassing and another of the numerous examples of the system failing our children, it's also adding tremendous added cost to a system whose adherents spend every waking moment begging more money for.
6. The Charter amendment is being pushed by a majority of GA voters and is a BiPartisan issue. Even many Democrats are awake to the reality of our educational failures and desire choice for their constituents.
Vote YES for excellence.
Monty Brewster
9:33 am on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Dan, the "majority" of people voting for this are being influenced by politicians who are influenced by profiting corporations. This is backwards, but explains why Georgia is ranked as the most corrupt state in the US. People should influence politicians, not the other way around.
(This is where Steely Dan says the opponents are being bullied by the overpaid superintendents that don't earn their pay, and teacher's unions (that don't exist). Then, being the teacher hater that he is, say something snarky about teachers being overpaid and trying to protect their bloated salaries. What other profession can a person do a great job, attract more "customers" and get paid less?). Sorry, Dan. We know all your talking points. Something knew perhaps?
Steely Dan
10:54 am on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Elizabeth Hooper: "Dr. Barge is my hero"
This isn't my talking point, Monty. I'm just quoting your buddy Liz. The NO folks haven't had an original thought on this topic - you mouth every single bit of nonsense that flows out of your local superintendents, who care only about protecting their billions-dollar budgets.
Prove me wrong - say something (anything) new. Bring something "new" to the table.
That's "new"...as in 'opposite of old'. Not "knew", as in "I knew Monty had no idea of what he was talking about."
Common Sense
11:31 am on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Steely, if the best argument you have is against a misuse of one word on a blog, you might want to revisit your stash of intellectual weapons. After wasting many hours following the Patch comments (I must be bored), Monty has brought up several important concerns and questions about the Amendment. I'm hearing the 'same ole' same ole' from you:
1) You think Superintendents (especially the Big Bad Dr. P! Oh my!) make too much money, but fail to apply that same principle to out-of-state for-profit charter EMO's, and
2) You believe that 'money won't fix this problem' (I'm 100% positive that apprpriate funding will restore our full calendar year in Cherokee, but maybe I'm just being crazy!).
So, pray tell. If a Superintendent makes $200,000 a year to run a district with nearly 40,000 kids and 4,500 employees, how much should say... Jon Hage with CSUSA make? Oh wait, the 'free market' dictates that - I guess we shouldn't ask that question even though Georgia taxpayer funds line his pockets in Florida! Oops! Uber-Conservative Hypocrisy 101. Moving on.
and...
If money won't fix CCSD's current financial woes of furloughs, staff reductions/attrition, skyrocketing healthcare costs, large class sizes, just what will? And don't you dare say 'look at Forsyth County.' This is CHEROKEE COUNTY.
Thanks in advance for your response.
Monty Brewster
11:59 am on Sunday, November 4, 2012
It was a simple parapraxis. As in "I knew you had nothing new" or "Vote kNOw".
Steely Dan
7:12 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Common Sense
- ESPLOST is allegedly handling capital expenses.
- Record-high SAT scores prove that massive spending increases aren't needed. If anything, we should trim even more Admin/Superintendent overhead. We'd likely see SAT scores increase again if we did. Admins and Supers are in no way, shape, nor form responsible for students getting an education. Teachers and active parents deserve 100% of the credit here. Neither group needs a bunch of overpaid fatcats telling them how to do their job. Check the salaries of these CCSD admins: All are over $125K. For what, exactly? Why do these people deserve money that is actually being earned by teachers in classrooms?
Question: Given the complete lack of evidence to support your assertion...just how does increasing funding help? Seeing that our SAT scores were stagnant and mediocre when we were spending like drunken sailors....and have only increased after a few consecutive years of spending cuts, why would we want to return to the educational stagnation that resulted from 2+ decades of a doubling in per-child spending? We need to educate kids for cheaper - the way all charter schools do. Cut the super's salary and all his (numerous) admins in half. Give all that money to teachers. If the super or his (numerous) admins complain, fire 'em on the spot. Plenty will do their job for 50% off without complaint nor monthly vehicle expenses.
Common Sense
10:54 am on Monday, November 5, 2012
High SAT scores are a result of a well-educated student population, thanks to dedicated teachers and parents working together. Administrators certainly play a huge part in the day-to-day operations of a well-run school, and school district, so I disagree with you there - they help 'set the stage' for success. Teachers need to teach, not worry about the multiple functions of their school and district - which is why we need a solid Administration as well. I'm not sure where the 'fat cat' references comes from as CCSD has one of the LOWEST Administrative overheads in the state. If you don't like Dr. P, that's a personal problem. The numbers speak for themselves - we certainly don't overspend in Admin.
And I wonder how long CCSD teachers will be as dedicated moving forward? If the district continues to spiral down the financial toilet, and furloughs increase, days are continually lengthened, healthcare costs continue to double every year, what kind of morale will that lead to? I believe teachers are already underpaid as is, and this is a several-thousand dollar blow to every teacher, every year. Are we all suffering? Sure. But do we, in the private sector, have mud thrown at our jobs regularly? Get blamed for the woes of society, but are expected to fix it? Perform better in worsening conditions? For most of us - NOPE!
Ralph Stepp
10:58 am on Saturday, November 3, 2012
Typical liberal thought to restrict or prevent liberty of choice, because Charter Schools opportunity should be prevented as Liberals know everyone's need's. There is never, a single method or system fits all needs in all locales or situations. Opposition to how charter schools can be organized and paid for is being fed by false information and fails to encourage me when I see that lies, innuendos and misleading comments are used to support their arguments. There is zero true information regarding funding of local school boards being diverted to Charter Schools by this amendment. This is simply a change in 1 section of our unique state constitution wherein local control or home rule is being expanded. Under proposal there are 2 paths for creating charter schools, one by the local school board and another creating a charter school by the local parents and/or other local organizations through application and funding by the state. This 2nd method requires additional legislation to establish details. The devil is in the details your legislature writes.
In Forsyth we are blessed with an excellent school system with very capable and supportive School Board's excellent guidance. This is simply not true across Georgia as is evidenced by the failures of DeKalb and Fulton. While I support and enjoy our success ,there is no threat to our success from this change so long as our success continues. Freedom of Choice is always best and limiting freedom is always bad.
Athens Mama
1:03 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
@Ralph - not all the liberals are against this amendment or charter schools. Although the financing of the support for the amendment is not a source I consider friendly, and although I believe the language in the amendment to be biased - I AM A LIBERAL AND I SUPPORT ANY VESSEL THAT WILL CLEAR THE WAY FOR MORE BRIDGES TO CHARTER SCHOOLS IN GEORGIA.
Ralph Stepp
3:30 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Athens Mama, no one said liberals were against, Liberal arguments are anti choice and I salute you for your "SUPPORT" of other "BRIDGES". I also agree that the language is biased and should not be included on the ballot.
Hal Schneider
12:52 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
This Amendment does NOT create a bureaucracy! There will be a board of SEVEN UNPAID members whose sole purpose is to evaluate appeals from parents when a local BoE rejects an application for a charter school. They have NOTHING to do with running that charter school if it is approved. 32 other states in the country ALSO have an appeals process similar to this one.
Elizabeth, you are calling Wal-Mart a monopoly? Really. Here in Cumming, there is a Target right across the street! And a Kohl's, and a Publix down the road....shall I go on. County public schools ARE a monopoly unless people want to spend big bucks for private schools. Giving the local BoE the ONLY say as to whether a charter school can be authorized is such a blatant conflict f interest that Ii find it hard to believe the process was EVER set up in this way!
Screaming about bureaucracy is nothing but a huge re herring! We have 4,000 bureaucrats at the U.S. Dept of Education, and 1600+ at the Georgia Dept of Education and hundreds more at the Regional offices, and the State Superintendent wants to claim that 7 unpaid commissioners is the straw to break the camel's back? That's disingenuous at best!
Frank Jones
2:23 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
Hal, the amendment isn't to allow parents the opportunity to appeal, it's to allow the charter school overlords the ability to appeal. Nothing or very little in the amendment is about grass roots charter endeavors. The amendment is to facilitate the for profit companies to raid the state treasury while providing substandard education.
Your rebuttal that there won't be a bureaucracy is interesting. So we're going to give out of state company millions of dollars without any sort of oversight? Note that is truly scary. Imagine the abuses that the failure of having a bureaucracy would permit.
Poorly written amendment, poorly implemented law will lead to abuses and wasted tax dollars. VOTE NO on Tuesday.
Steely Dan
7:41 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
Frank, we're already giving out-of-state, for-profit companies millions of $$$ every day to supply the schools with the materials they need to operate. Everything from bus fuel to lunch food to books to computers: All going to out-of-state, for-profit companies.
And you know what - there's not a darn thing wrong with that.
Why do you liberals hate profit? Without profit, there'll be no money to steal from taxpayers to pay for your stupid ObamaCare plan that you love so much, Frank. It's one of a thousand examples of the short-sighted stupidity of liberal thinking and yet-another reason to vote YES - to give parents a choice around such ignorant, profit-hating communist thinking.
Take your hatred of 'profit' to Cuba and say 'Hi' to Castro, Frank.
Monty Brewster
1:43 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Again, Dan... there is a HUGE difference between for-profit VENDORS that offer a book, bus, or computer product and a for-profit MANAGEMENT CORPORATION that operates and manages every aspect of the school from what shirt the kids where to who is employed at the school. The EMO should only be in charge of curriculum, not employment. That should be controlled by the school.
Steely Dan
10:26 pm on Monday, November 5, 2012
Monty, there's no difference whatsoever.
Profit is profit, whether it be by someone admin'ing world-class schools or someone supplying gasoline to CCSD school buses.
Your definition of profit far below (accurate, btw) is the same in both cases.
PROFIT IS NOT A BAD THING. Though Monty, I don't think you're a Profit-hater like your buddy Frank Jones is.
Monty Brewster
11:33 pm on Monday, November 5, 2012
I don't know Frank Jones. Wish I did, though. He is extremely bright and factual.
Dan, please know that there is a major difference of influence based on one's ability to profit, not that a profit is being made.
Steely Dan
1:48 pm on Tuesday, November 6, 2012
Monty, you need to raise your standards for the words 'bright' and 'factual'.
Hal Schneider
2:53 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
Frank, everything you just said is nonsense! Parents absolutely will have the ability to appeal rejections. Charter School companies will only be trying to start charter schools where PARENTS actually want their kids to attend. If they have no students, are they really going to open a school. That's absurd!
Charter Schools are NON-PROFIT 501c3 organizations. Please stop spreading the LIE that they are "for profit".
This amendment simply restores the process that was in place from 2008 until 2011 when the GA Supreme Court made a really bad ruling! The process was working just fine and doing what it was supposed to...giving parents an appeals process. It DOES NOT create any bureaucracy. The board already exists, but its authority was stripped by the court ruling! This amendment simply restores that authority.
Why exactly do you care where the Charter School company's headquarters is located? Isn't the education of our children far more important than where an HQ is?
Apparently, you are for the status quo which condemns Georgia students to their ranking of 48th in academic achievement in the country and 1 out of 3 students dropping our altogether. Do you have any idea what the cost of THAT is to the State in crime, unemployment, underemployment, welfare, disability, food stamps, etc? Your condemnation of these kids to a failing system is deplorable!
Antosc
4:44 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
It's actually not a lie that charter schools can be labelled "for profit". They are schools operating in the public school system, but many of them are developed and run by corporations selling charter models. Charter schools are a great idea on paper that is being bent into a voucher model, and as such will provide no fix for the educational system.
Hal Schneider
4:50 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
Antosc,
You can attempt to twist the truth all you wish. Charter Schools are only operated as 501c3 organizations which are NOT FOR PROFIT"!
The county public schools ALSO use "for profit" organizations to provide services to them, but that does NOT make THEM "for profit" either. STOP the misrepresentations....PLEASE!
Monty Brewster
1:46 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Hal, see the explanation above. There is a difference between for-profit vendors and for-profit management corporations.
Steely Dan
10:26 pm on Monday, November 5, 2012
Profit's profit, Monty.
Steely Dan
1:49 pm on Tuesday, November 6, 2012
Hal: "Frank, everything you just said is nonsense!"
I.E - a typical Frank Jones post.
Ralph Stepp
11:43 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
Note that those opposing freedom offer not one fact or report or document that proves any of their "facts" if they give you one check the credentials of the report an you will find another liberal "fact finder" quoting another liberal. No facts no truth just another liberal or Rino lying to make a centralist figure of themselves.
Paula Milliard
7:42 am on Sunday, November 4, 2012
How does amendment #1 affect the independence of a charter school's 'hands on' approach?
Does amendment #1 leave the independent aspects of charter schools, curriculum and administration alone?
JAH
9:43 am on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Only 3 days to go, hallelujah! It will be manna from heaven to not have any more of these shrill columns.
I voted early, and voted YES.
Monty Brewster
1:47 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
No one is perfect.
Common Sense
10:27 am on Sunday, November 4, 2012
2 days now! And I agree - whatever will we argue about!?
I voted early and VOTED NO! Join me!
Common Sense
11:08 am on Sunday, November 4, 2012
I think the most important question we need to ask ourselves is: is the wording of the preamble and amendment representative of the proposed change to the constitution. Anyone with half a brain will agree that the verbiage is confusing and vague at BEST. Heck, Governor Raw Deal is being sued over the lousy wording he slapped on our ballots. I specifically recall 'improving student achievement' and 'parental involvement' on my ballot, and - gasp! - that is not addressed ANYWHERE in the actual legislation (HB1162 OR HB797). This is all a RUSE! The sole intent of this amendment is to reestablish the commission that was deemed unconstitutional last year. Though it is being sold to the masses as our 'last chance!' to save charter schools. What a joke! We HAVE charter schools, and will continue to have them if Amendment 1 (hopefully!) flops on Tuesday.
Vote NO to support REAL local, grassroots efforts for charter schools. A 'yes' vote will do nothing but provide our unethical 'leaders' in Atlanta with yet MORE power in the educational realm. And they have done a dang good job at running Georgia's public school system into the ground!
VOTE NO!
Stevie Nicks
8:49 am on Monday, November 5, 2012
Common Sense...you make sense here. The preamble and amendment wording should not hold up in court. The actual amendment has no provisions for parental involvment. Actually, when Jan Jones was asked to put it in 797, she refused!
Hal Schneider
12:06 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
It is so sad that the current administration in Washington has done such a thorough job of convincing so many that competition and private enterprise are the enemy, when in truth they are what built this great country over the past 236 years!
Competition breeds excellence. The failing county public school system in this country is directly related to a lack of competition. And the opponents of this amendment apparently want things to continue that way! Anyone who compares our kids to those in industrialized countries around the world would be shocked.
And yet, the "establishment" continues to protect themselves....instead of our future generations. Like I said...very sad!
Athens Mama
1:07 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Charters create choices. Competition is created by choices. Competition leads to higher quality customer service = better treatment of students and parents. In some districts and schools, the people getting paid to serve the students and parents have open condescension for the "customers" they serve. The voices dripping with contempt for these parents and students make me sick. If their jobs get cut, I won't shed a tear. The tragedy is that in the public sector, only years of service count to determine whose jobs will be cut - not how how high the quality of service delivered to the students is.
Andrew Blawat
1:25 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Time to get a better education for our children by having competition. This will also lower costs as I'm sick of paying taxes in order to pay $100,000 for a kindergarten teacher who gets full benefits.
Common Sense
2:51 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Andrew, if Kindergarten teachers made $100,000 a year with full benefits, you'd have 90% of the country knocking down every school's doors to teach. That hasn't happened yet. Me thinks it's because of the lousy pay (sorry, I don't know one teacher that makes $100,000 a year, and I know plenty), and blatant disrespect that you, and many others, show the profession.
And for the record, I believe many teachers deserve $100,000 a year for the garbage they deal with. Which is, more or less, a result of lack of parenting at home.
Andrew Blawat
1:27 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Want to see how much some teachers make for working 9 months?:
http://www.open.georgia.gov/sta/searchCriteria.aud
Monty Brewster
3:08 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Does this site also show that most teachers put in 12-16 hours a day and work over their unpaid 3 months? I have multiple family members that were teachers and they worked endlessly, even when they weren't being paid. They don't get paid overtime, and they don't get paid more for being the best. This is the only profession that I can think of that their contract is not honored. Your hatred for this group of selfless people is despicable.
Rebecca McCarthy
3:39 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Dear Andrew, you might find it enlightening to visit a public school, talk with the teachers and principals, and compute the time they put into their jobs. Then see if that equals an 8 to 5 work day, with time for bathroom breaks and lunch. You would find they work far more than nine months during the school year. Did you know teachers lead the way in kidney and bladder infections because they can't take breaks from their classrooms?
Athens Mama
10:08 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
@Monty: You are completely correct in your assessment of the hours and dues paid by teachers. I just spent about 6 hours on Sunday planning lessons and writing a readers' theatre for my class. I work at least 6 days a week. In my opinion, teacher pay in Georgia could be better, but I do get 2 months in the summer, as well as a week on spring break, and 2 weeks over the holidays. It's not such a bad deal. There are federal programs to forgive student loans, programs to improve pay, such as advanced degree incentives, and local incentives like in one county in South Florida where teachers make an extra $36,000 per year just for completing 2 years of specific professional development and staying in the district. With merit based pay in Georgia, teachers will get paid if their students consistently test high. I'm not sure what I think about this - it hasn't applied to me yet. I will say that I think that with best practices in place as well as a commitment to each individual student, many teachers can improve test scores and qualify for merit based incentives. I don't read a "hatred for this group of selfless people" in the blog posts. I don't. I think though, that we have to be objective. For instance, I stood out on Broad Street on the day of Officer Christian's funeral, but that doesn't mean I stand behind the behaviors of every police officer everywhere. Childcare workers are often underpaid and unappreciated, but we cannot lump them all into a group of "martyrs."
love living in Forsyth
10:42 pm on Monday, November 5, 2012
I personally would never want to be a teacher. I have a lot of respect for most of them. My son had 1 kindergarten teacher that really was lazy and pretty much would stay pregnant, in the 4 years my son wast at the APS school, she had 3 kids. She would let the kids watch movies if she didn't feel like teaching. A few of us parents caught her and of course she isn't there anymore. My son is now 12 and I have to say his teachers deserve a lot more money and respect than they get. I totally agree with the type of students the teachers deal with is a lack of parenting. These people that keep having kids to be able to get more welfare so they can supply their drug habit and not really care about what is going on with their kids is really the parents fault. If the school is doing that badly, then the Super. or the BOE needs to take another look at the school and teachers. But opening more schools isn't the answer.
Monty Brewster
2:29 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
The problem with doing this now is that we are in a recession. If funding was available for this experiment, I'd say go for it. But right now, there isn't enough to go around. The children left behind in the sorely underfunded public schools will be in far too overcrowded classes with outdated or no resources. Your choice will have a negative affect on the majority of students, the achievement gap will widen, and people will demand more charters as the public schools are bled dry and left to die. But there won't be any more money. Then what? Will the state go bankrupt? Will we raise taxes? How will we pay for these schools? Are we planning on canceling transportation to all schools so that we can operate cheaper? There are way to many questions about what will happen. No one in our delegation is answering these questions because they want to keep us in the dark and fighting each other instead of focusing on what is really happening behind closed doors at the Capitol. While I support the idea of charter schools and choice, I do not support this amendment. Not now. It's like buying a new home before you know how you're going to pay for it. Figure out how schools will be funded first, then we'll talk.
Steely Dan
7:24 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
For once, I actually agree with you on something Monty.
You're right - we're in a recession. Yet local districts still want to spend like it's 2006, with you & I picking up the tab. But you're right - we're in a recession. There's less funding for everything, including education.
Which is why we need to vote YES. Charters do the job of education better and cheaper than traditional public schools.
Monty Brewster
9:10 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Dan, there is no limit to spending with charters under this amendment. Again, I like charters, but this is not the time to give them free reign.
Monty Brewster
3:33 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Andrew Blawat - Do you even live in Georgia? Or are you a paid charter blogger from Maryland? How much do you stand to profit if A1 passes here in Georgia?
A Local
7:40 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Good catch, Monty!
Googling the name was revealing.
Stevie Nicks
8:50 am on Monday, November 5, 2012
Wow! Why does someone from Maryland or ARkansas or Florida care somuch about local control in Cherokee County??
Common Sense
11:01 am on Monday, November 5, 2012
People, if having someone from MARYLAND blogging on our local Patch, about teacher pay and how wonderful charter schools are, has you a little confused... step back and scratch your head for a moment. They are drooling over YOUR tax dollars should Amendment 1 pass tomorrow. Get the word out TODAY - VOTE NO to profit-seeking goons that see nothing but a price-tag on your kid's head!
Angelia Collins
11:22 pm on Monday, November 5, 2012
Vote NO on Amendment 1 - our children's futures are not for sale!
Frank Jones
9:02 am on Tuesday, November 6, 2012
Vote NO on Amendment 1...Vote No on Amendment 2. Vote No on HOST.
Steely Dan
9:10 am on Tuesday, November 6, 2012
Vote YES on Amendment 1 - our children's futures should not be limited to the status quo!
Steely Dan
9:10 am on Tuesday, November 6, 2012
Vote YES on Amendment 1 - our children's futures should not be dictated to by corrupt local superintendents!
Monty Brewster
9:24 am on Tuesday, November 6, 2012
The corrupt politicians have more of a negative affect. They are also the status quo. Write in! Do not vote for the status quo legislators! Vote NO on Amendment 1. Vote No on Amendment 2! And WRITE IN "Anyone but Chip" for District 21. NO MORE STATUS QUO! I agree, Dan.
Steely Dan
1:45 pm on Tuesday, November 6, 2012
Monty, believe it or not, I suspect we agree on more than we disagree.
Here's the problem with writing-in candidates: It's a complete waste of time.
Under GA Election law, a write-in candidate must announce their write-in candidacy within a month after the end of the primaries. Failure to do so results in such a candidate being ineligible for an election. This is to prevent you & me from writing in "Mickey Mouse", "Monty Brewster" , "Steely Dan", "Frank Jones" or some other comical character and having that guy actually win.
Also, any candidate who lost the primary is ineligible for election in the general. So a candidate like Danny Dukes cannot lose to Janet Read and then try to run as a write-in or member of the other party.
What America really needs is a viable 3rd party that combines the best of the Ds & Rs for the vast majority of America that is in the middle of the political aisle. Unfortunately, the Ds & Rs work actively to shut down any attempts of this nature.
PS: Voting NO is a vote for the Status Quo. But you knew that already.
Tuskhog03a
8:50 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
For all that Voted, Thank-you. For all that Voted YES, Double Thank-you!!!
Our Children and Education come first. Instead of arguing against giving our parents and children choices in Education, focus on the real problem and make Education the true priority. Support your local schools and support the charter schools.. Retired Army